Marketing and Events Intern for the Loeb Center, Isa Nava ’28, chats with Alumni-in-Residence guest Catherine E. Lhamon ’93 to discuss what led her to a career in civil rights and advocacy, the barriers in achieving equitable education, and advice she has for students interested in careers in advocacy and law.
The transcription below has been edited for clarity.
Isa Nava
Welcome back to the On AiR podcast. My name is Isa Nava, and I am a marketing and events intern at the Loeb Center. Today, I had the pleasure of interviewing Catherine E. Lhamon, Amherst class of ’93. Catherine is the inaugural executive director of the Edley Center on Law and Democracy, and previously served until January 20th, 2025, as the assistant secretary for civil rights at the U.S. Department of Education. I hope you enjoy the talk.
Welcome, everyone who’s listening. My name is Isa Nava, and I am a marketing and events intern at the Loeb Center. I have the privilege of speaking today with Catherine E. Lhamon, class of ’93. Catherine, thank you for taking the time to be here today.
Catherine Lhamon
Thanks so much for having me.
Isa
Before we start, I just want to ask, what is it like to be back on campus?
Catherine
Oh. It’s beautiful. I mean, there’s the fall colors, it’s like the perfect Amherst day. It’s glorious.
Isa
Absolutely. It’s been great weather recently.
Catherine
Except for the rain yesterday.
Isa
Except for the rain yesterday. But even still.
Catherine
It’s still lovely to be back.
Isa
Absolutely. Okay, just to start off with a question that I know is a tradition from my fellow interns. Would you give us an elevator pitch, a brief introduction to who you are and what you do?
Catherine
Sure. I am the inaugural executive director of the Edley Center on Law and Democracy at UC Berkeley Law School. And just before coming to this role, I was the chief civil rights enforcer in the nation’s schools for President Obama.
Isa
Wow. That is very-
Catherine
Oh, actually, President Biden. I also did it for President Obama. But most recently, it was President Biden.
Isa
Different administrations, but he was there both times.
Catherine
Yes.
Isa
That’s really meaningful work. You built a remarkable career dedicated to civil rights and equity. And I’m really curious, as someone who’s figuring out which path I want to continue down, when you first arrived at Amherst, did you already see yourself going down that path, or did that passion take shape later?
Catherine
I was planning to be a lawyer when I first came, and I didn’t know what that meant. And my career has been very different from what I thought when I was here. But I did plan to be a lawyer, and I did love social justice and civil rights at the time.
Isa
Was there a specific moment that shaped the exact path you went down, or what did your journey look like?
Catherine
There was no specific moment for me. I grew up with civil rights activist parents, and hearing about civil rights and social justice was certainly part of my childhood storytelling and lullaby experience. And then it’s the kinds of issues that I’ve cared about and thought about for most of my life. So there were lots of twists and turns along the way, but there was no specific “aha” moment.
Isa
That’s incredible. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, growing up with parents that are that impactful in your life, it’s amazing. I know you did a talk yesterday, “Educating for Democracy,” where you delved into this topic a little bit, but from your perspective, I’m curious, what are some of the biggest barriers to achieving equitable education today?
Catherine
We have a specific formulation today, but in reality, we haven’t had the political will ever as a country, actually, to deliver meaningful educational opportunity for all of our students on an equal basis. And that’s awful, and appalling, and particularly damaging now, where we have a president who is opposed to academic inquiry and opposed to academic freedom, and who says that he’s returning education to the states away from the federal government, but is in fact, the most directive president we’ve ever had with respect to what can be thought learned or understood in school. And that’s very dangerous for us as a country, and it happens at a time when we haven’t yet, and desperately need still, to deliver an equal education for all students.
Isa
How has the recent presidency affected how you think about advocacy and what you think needs to be done moving forward?
Catherine
Well, this president is aggressive about undermining every norm, law, experience that we have had up until now and reshaping the way that the Executive Office is used in this country. I think that’s very dangerous. And so it underscores what was already true, which is the need to teach people what it means to be in a democracy, what our democracy guardrails are and how to use them and, and support the courage of conviction, of standing up for justice and standing up for the people, all of which should be part of our American tradition and should be something that that is part of how we train and what we learn in schools.
Isa
Absolutely. It should.
Catherine
Yes.
Isa
I’m sure that your talk yesterday, the students took away a lot of meaningful-
Catherine
I hope so. One of the students has said that she understood that I was issuing a call to action, and that’s exactly right. That was the takeaway I was hoping for.
Isa
So I think our listeners will understand that as well. This is definitely a call to action.
Catherine
Good.
Isa
Hearing you describe these long-term challenges about education makes me think about the persistence that it takes to keep pushing forward for progress year after year. So I’m curious about you personally and about your journey. When people look back on your legacy and the things that you’ve done, what do you want them to remember from your life’s work?
Catherine
Well, I hope people are not looking back so much on what I’ve done, but looking back on our time. But I hope that what we have left is a time of courage and conviction and capacity and insistence on doing more in supporting the public good. And that’s something that has been how I’ve seen all of the work that I’ve done as a lawyer. It is also what I hope we can encourage more of in our broad American community now, because we really need to be working for a shared public good in this inclusive, multiracial democracy that we deserve.
Isa
I agree. Was there a specific moment or specific event in your career, you think, that really highlighted that importance for you, or that you think was particularly impactful, either for you or for the community that you were trying to serve?
Catherine
Well, there’s so many, right? I mean, and I think that’s not even specific to my life or my own experiences, but for our country, and now when we have a president who is operating in excess and arresting people, with the Supreme Court explaining that it’s fine to do that based on racial profiling, and deporting people to countries that they’re not from, and unapologetically deporting people who are United States citizens, and operating in every imaginable way to divide us and to denigrate some of us as less worthy of government protection and government recognition. That’s very dangerous. So, I think this moment is the most consequential in my lifetime, in terms of a need for response and responsiveness. But we’ve had lots of times across all of our history where we have failed to live up to our aspirations. And I hope this doesn’t remain one of them.
Isa
I hope it doesn’t as well. All right. I think that my last question is on the topic of legacy, and it’s looking forward to the people who are aiming to fulfill that call to action and moving forward, want to become lawyers who carry those same convictions that you do. I want to ask if you were speaking directly to the student body of Amherst, entering the world of politics, advocacy, and law. What advice do you have for them? Or what advice do you think that you would have wanted to hear back when you were a student?
Catherine
Well, I hope every Amherst student feels encouraged and supported to pursue their goals. To be true to themselves. So specifically in the politics and advocacy universe of work, which I love, I encourage others who love it to engage in it, find the point of entry, and find that way of doing the work that best fits your soul and your skill set, and then run with it, because there’s no shortage of work to be done and no shortage of need. We don’t often do it the same way. We’re not all inspired by or good at the same things. And so we should do that work however we find truest to our own capacities. I hope our students today feel like they can, and then they do.
Isa
Okay. Catherine, thank you so much for taking the time today to share your insights and your journey. It’s been inspiring to see how dedicated you are to equity and civil rights in our community, and I’m sure that all of our listeners and all the student body will be taking a lot from your words.
Catherine
Well, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Isa
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this interview with Catherine E. Lhamon. Stay tuned for the next episode of On Air, and see you next time.
